Sometimes less is more. The debate goes on. Why not just let the music play? And by that I mean high resolution music. All you need is one person who can hear high frequencies, and all the technical mumble-jumble becomes hogwash.
People actually _believe_ the 20KHz argument that anything above is inaudible. That's hogwash. I know because I can hear (or sense) higher frequencies, and I do not have the absolute best ears I've ever "met."
For example, last week I attended a A/V equipment event with very high-end equipment. It was packed --- over 600 people for one evening. 6 rooms of equipment. I'm sure all six served the same fare according to the 20-20KHz argument of this piece, yet they all sounded quite (or even extremely) different.
The 20 KHz argument is a myth. For people who can't hear the difference, no problem. But please do refrain from ruining or hobbling music for the rest of us... who can hear a wider frequency range.
Yes, some people are color blind. Does that mean the rest of us shouldn't use color? I hope not.
Music is an important wholesome and potentially emotional part of human life. Please do not cap it with "false optimizations".
24-bit/192 KHz is not inferior to CD quality sound. If you don't believe me, try a Linn system sourced on a Klimax DS with some high bitrate Linn classical music (or the Beatles Masters USB release!). If you can't hear the difference compared to low bit-rate (including CD quality) material, I assure you someone can. The low bit-rate will sound flat, hollow, less lively, or/and more coarse. Any number of problems exhibit at inadequate bit levels.
Vinyl is analogue quality (no discrete digital distortion). CD quality is a large step down from vinyl. A/V is just trying to get vinyl like quality from digital. We don't need nay-sayers impeding progress. If you can't hear the difference, please let someone who can hear make the informed decisions.
It's not a myth, but a fact established in laboratory studies. Your anecdotal claims to hear frequencies that scientific evidence suggests you cannot hear doesn't overturn science. I'd be convinced if you correctly identified which speakers were reproducing 21 kHz frequencies in a double-blind test, though.
Isn't science verified through (wait for it...) experimentation? So how does my hearing not invalidate your science?
That's the problem with the theoretical science. When it's false, it's false. Come up with a new hypothesis; this one's false as it pertains to human hearing. There's information theory, and then there's auditory reality. Reality confounds the theory as applied to hearing. I don't know where the fault lies, and I don't really care.
But it's really annoying and frustrating having people nix progress out of idealistic theory, "laboratory" studies, and ignorance. The experiments (my experiences and numerous others) don't lie.
Double-blind is great, but I can already tell the differences between all six rooms of equipment from last week. One of the rooms was so extreme, I wanted to run out of the room due to discomfort (but I was polite and stayed all 30 minutes). In other words, double-blind was unnecessary. Someone whose ears I respect a great deal, loved that room. Even golden ears don't all hear the same. But I don't need double-blind to confirm trivial experience. The proof is already in the listening.
> So how does my hearing not invalidate your science?
Because it's not a blind study. In audio, claiming something sounds better than something else is low-strength evidence, because it doesn't: 1) distinguish psychological bias (which is very strong in this area) from actual audible results; or 2) distinguish which characteristics of speakers, if any, you may be hearing.
If you can consistently ABX two speakers that have similar characteristics except that one reproduces frequencies over 20 kHz while the other doesn't (with identical performance below 20 kHz), I'd be convinced. One possibility is to use the same speaker but insert a high-quality 20 kHz lowpass in the chain during part of the test; or use the same speaker but with 44 kHz versus 96 kHz source material. I've never seen a controlled, blind case where a human can tell the difference there.
If CD quality (44.1 KHz/16 bit) is that good, why hasn't the market for vinyl (analogue >> 192 KHz/24-bit) just withered away and died (instead of reviving)?
The psychological component is a red herring. Even though I already have a system (bias), I don't care about the other systems. I went to the show for enjoyment, education, and appreciation. Some of the systems were unknown to me (no bias), and some were known and surprised me in some ways (again, some bias overridden). So bias can be important, but it's not relevant in this case. So bias doesn't invalidate my experience.
As for the double-blind and high frequencies, I believe I've already done the test. I have had my hearing tested several times. One of them, I recall the tester actually asked me to repeat some tests... it was funny. The testing was at very high frequencies. I believe she thought I was guessing the higher/lower frequencies... and getting lucky. So (I strongly suspect) she wanted to "prove" to herself what you want to prove --- that noone can hear above 20KHz. I disappointed her. I think she even threw in some placebo tests (no frequencies at all). It was funny. She never explained herself. I suspect she just thought I got lucky again.
How to really test this stuff? Get one of the audio designers to test... but they will laugh in the testers' faces. They do this stuff for a living... to build real products... for real live customers who can hear the differences. Dave Wilson was at the A/V show. Try listening to a pair of Wilson Audio speakers. I bet he can hear better than just about anyone... His speakers (when sourced and driven properly) are that good. But he wouldn't waste his time on such tests. He has customers to serve and a business to run.
I doubt lab experiments look to disprove their theories once and for all. That's a social prejudice built into the lab experiments. Fix that, and you'll end up with a better hypothesis.
People actually _believe_ the 20KHz argument that anything above is inaudible. That's hogwash. I know because I can hear (or sense) higher frequencies, and I do not have the absolute best ears I've ever "met."
For example, last week I attended a A/V equipment event with very high-end equipment. It was packed --- over 600 people for one evening. 6 rooms of equipment. I'm sure all six served the same fare according to the 20-20KHz argument of this piece, yet they all sounded quite (or even extremely) different.
The 20 KHz argument is a myth. For people who can't hear the difference, no problem. But please do refrain from ruining or hobbling music for the rest of us... who can hear a wider frequency range.
Yes, some people are color blind. Does that mean the rest of us shouldn't use color? I hope not.
Music is an important wholesome and potentially emotional part of human life. Please do not cap it with "false optimizations".
24-bit/192 KHz is not inferior to CD quality sound. If you don't believe me, try a Linn system sourced on a Klimax DS with some high bitrate Linn classical music (or the Beatles Masters USB release!). If you can't hear the difference compared to low bit-rate (including CD quality) material, I assure you someone can. The low bit-rate will sound flat, hollow, less lively, or/and more coarse. Any number of problems exhibit at inadequate bit levels.
Vinyl is analogue quality (no discrete digital distortion). CD quality is a large step down from vinyl. A/V is just trying to get vinyl like quality from digital. We don't need nay-sayers impeding progress. If you can't hear the difference, please let someone who can hear make the informed decisions.
Thanks.