The OP didn't say "hard-working". He said "fiercely hard-working".
Anyway, I'd still call even someone merely described as "hard-working" a workaholic -- meaning that they are probably working an excessive number of hours, and have an unbalanced life/work ratio.
The amount of hours Americans work compared to much of the rest of the world is already insane. It's quite typical for employees to be expected to work more than 40 hour weeks -- 50 or 60 hours is much more the norm. So when someone's called "hard-working" that means that they're probably putting in even more hours than that.
I don't even want to imagine the hours a "fiercely hard-working" Google employee puts in to compete with other brilliant employees who've all just gone from being exceptional at former jobs to "just average" at Google.
And don't even get me started on the startup rat race.
I'd take a cushy, "boring" job where I can work a sane number of hours without needing to impress anyone over an "exciting", high-pressure job at some trendy corporation any day.
I can find plenty of challenge and fulfillment outside of work, thank you very much. My life outside work means a lot more to me than any trinkets they can dangle in front of me at work, even if it is 4000 servers I can run map/reduce on at whim.
As for "accomplishing stuff", any company where you have to put in more than 40 hours a week to accomplish what you need is dysfunctional.
This is not what Google is like. Google is a normal workplace but with smart people who care, and with all of your needs taken care of. Need a USB cable or a new laptop battery? Grab one out of the storage closet. Need a coffee? You're never more than 100ft away from an automatic coffee maker, premade iced coffee, and a $10,000 espresso machine (and burr grinder, of course). Need a new monitor? Open a ticket and it will be on your desk in hours. Need an adjustment made to your desk? Open a ticket and someone will do it for you today.
When I worked at Bank of America, I spent about 6 hours a day dealing with bullshit and 4 hours a day working. At Google, there is no bullshit. I show up and can work for 8 hours. That makes me twice as productive even though I'm actually working less.
(And, with all the great internal libraries and software... well, it was depressing for me to realize how little "infrastructure" software I would need to write.)
I get the impression from outsiders that they hear a lot about how great Google is and then assume that they can't work at Google, so they then decide that what Google does is actually bad. The flaw is thinking that you can't work at Google. You can! Apply, brush up on your algorithms a bit, and start enjoying the amazing coffee!
I get the impression from outsiders that they hear a lot about how great Google is and then assume that they can't work at Google, so they then decide that what Google does is actually bad. The flaw is thinking that you can't work at Google. You can! Apply, brush up on your algorithms a bit, and start enjoying the amazing coffee!
Trust me, I would. I would actually do a lot better. I am definitely far more productive people around me. And I can build stuff and do my regular work both at the same time. Every manager I have every worked with says, they have seen no one like me before. I have built endless stuff without getting anything in return.
Like you I'm also frustrated dealing with all the large corporate non sense.
But I don't have Ivy league college degree, and yes I am not too much of an algo guy.
Well, I think people like despite being having all it takes can never work there. You see I can research, think and build quickly. I can push long hours, I can do weekends. I can virtually work and solve any problems by reading manuals. I have worked at back breaking deadlines, delivered stuff when others said it was impossible.But I don't remember math theorems. And am not too much into text books. Unless those books are like OnLisp(Paul Graham), Higher Order Perl(Mark Jason Dominus)... Kind of books.
I have no college degree. It did not come up during interviews at all. Having a degree gets you into Google at a higher pay grade if you have no experience. Otherwise, it's experience that matters.
Well, I think people like despite being having all it takes can never work there. You see I can research, think and build quickly. I can push long hours, I can do weekends. I can virtually work and solve any problems by reading manuals. I have worked at back breaking deadlines, delivered stuff when others said it was impossible.But I don't remember math theorems. And am not too much into text books. Unless those books are like OnLisp(Paul Graham), Higher Order Perl(Mark Jason Dominus)... Kind of books.
Yes, you will need to know what a binary search is. But you can read "Programming Pearls" and that will be enough. (Good book, BTW.) You don't have to be an algorithms expert, you just have to be competent. It's not as hard as you think it is.
Having dealt with the Google interview process and declined to continue: Maybe that is the typical process, but for me the experience was a long series of ridiculous questions that went into details about stuff that it makes no sense for anyone to memorize, and where the interviewer didn't seem to understand when I pointed out issues with the questions. Frankly, if that guy had worked for me, I'd have wanted to "manage him out" (and if I'd taken the position he would have worked for me).
The recruiter agreed with me, FWIW, and got the results thrown out without me even asking, and I got the distinct impression that she and many other recruiters at Google are extremely frustrated at the how the technical interviews are conducted. In the end I couldn't be bothered, as I wasn't particularly interested in the first place and had another offer on the table (took less time from start to finish than it took Google to arrange the first phone screen).
Anyway, my recommendation to anyone that interviews at Google and think the interviews are unreasonable: If you want to continue the process, detail any issues to the interviewer, and give them a chance to fight your corner. Chances are good that they will as long as you give them ammunition. Of course that assumes you actually do know your stuff and isn't just trying to sneak one past them.
I remember early in my career, before I had the chance to really build an application of any major size, I was given the opportunity to look at the source code of an application that I used frequently. I always felt like it was built by geniuses working well beyond my skillset, but once I saw the code, I remember thinking "that's it?" It wasn't the flawless work of art I imaged. It seemed like something I could have probably written myself.
Google has always had the same aura to me. It feels like the people there are working on things I could never comprehend, building flawless works that I could only dream of writing. Even though by your description I think I might actually be a really good fit, the idea of working at Google remains intimidating for some reason.
I remember early in my career, before I had the chance to really build an application of any major size, I was given the opportunity to look at the source code of an application that I used frequently. I always felt like it was built by geniuses working well beyond my skillset, but once I saw the code, I remember thinking "that's it?" It wasn't the flawless work of art I imaged. It seemed like something I could have probably written myself.
The same thing when I started learning music. First every time I saw some one playing an instrument it looked like work of geniuses. When I started playing myself, I can now realize it is not that great after all.
Well, like they say.
Nothing is as good or as bad as it originally seems.
I was not told what I would be working on when interviewing, but I was told before I accepted the offer. I work on the test infrastructure for payments (which is Wallet / Checkout / buying books and Android apps, etc.).
(As for level, I came in at 4/7. Out of college, people start at 1 or 2. So I'm not worried about the lack of a degree affecting my options or advancement at Google. If it does, Google will pay for the classes I need to take to get it :)
You really can get hired at google. I've gotten a recruiter ping email from google once and I work with many stanford grads and PhDs and so on at my startup and my degree is from a city university in Canada. It's about your skills and abilities.
I'm not sure how meaningful recruiter pings are; before I moved out of the bay area, I was averaging about 2/month from Google, and only once did the recruiter have a clear description of a position that was actually a good fit for my skills. In my group (at another big corp), the conversion rate of recruiter pings into actual interview offers is in the single digits. Recruiters are pretty bad at identifying candidates that you (the hiring group) want to interview, especially for more specialized positions.
It turns out that living outside of the bay area/NYC is a fantastic filter for recruiters. Now they don't talk to me unless they actually want me.
"I get the impression from outsiders that they hear a lot about how great Google is and then assume that they can't work at Google, so they then decide that what Google does is actually bad."
That certainly wasn't my motivation for expressing my concerns. I guess I've just been bitten by having worked at too many dysfunctional corporations, and aren't as ready to believe the constant startup/corporate cheerleading that tends to go on at these places.
I've worked with too many people who work themselves to death for more money, or because they can't stand being with their family, or because they really just have no life outside of work -- their job has become their life.
It would be one thing if they were doing something really fulfilling and worthwhile, such as working for a charity or NGO that tries to help people, but it's quite another when their entire function in life comes down to helping the corporation make more widgets or sell more ads so it can make more money.
If you are fulfilled working your ass off in such an environment, you'd better be working on some terribly fascinating problems every day, or there is something wrong.
I think I speak for the vast majority of the finance industry when I say, "Good riddance you you, jrockway."
You were a pernicious negative force in moving our quantitative industry. We don't want to apologize for our employers which is why many of us don't work for Google.
Enjoy your perqs. We're glad it's all that took to make you a distant memory.
