At my place, this is what they want. They want people to smash through things as fast as possible. They don’t want people to sit and craft a solution which takes in to account the whole. They are choosing tools which are low code, and use llm’s to produce what they need. as they say “this is the way things are going”.
Even that would be acceptable. But they still blame the programmer, who was pressured into this, for any fallouts because of it. Basically trying to have it both ways. The unreasonableness of it is infuriating.
Pretty much this, they want to impose one method, but they don’t want to own the mistakes that it creates. Sometimes it felt like the bullies that are saying “why are you making me hurting you?”.
I see it as laying the groundwork for firing. This is bound to blow-up in production eventually which would be a good enough excuse. If it doesn't, reduce token budget and squeeze some more until it breaks.
It's exposing the hypocrisy of privileged groups suddenly being treated like regular people, when they did NOTHING for decades to help others or even to protect themselves ("f** you, got mine", rockstar programmer, 10x programmer, talents everywhere, etc mentality). No unions, no collective bargaining, sheer individual greed.
Do you think that all programmers have always existed in the US?
On that note, do you think that all programmers in the US are these Silicon Valley stereotypes?
Plenty of programmers in the US make normal wages for professionals with degrees doing things not at the technology companies famous for their disregard of the rest of humanity.
As someone who has done trades and also “machine shop programming” and jail breaking rural equipment for friends to use I’m wondering why comments like this are focusing on dividing us instead of bringing us together.
It's a universal programmer trait. Let's call them "culturally regular programmers": they are less social than the average person. They lean more libertarian and more selfish.
The Open Source community is programmers sharing with other programmers, and it's largely fueled by corporate interests these days.
The Free Software movement has largely failed by now, as shown by GPL 3/AGPL adoption.
And again, all of this was based on the fact that programmers were a "special breed" of people coddled by corporations. Now that the corporate mask is off and programmers are no longer (as) special, the whining is horrendous. And the libertarianism still won't go away.
> According to who and what?
To me, I've been around the block for several decades.
Again, not everyone, but the culturally regular programmer.
Yeah I get that. But having been both it doesn’t advocate for better treatment for any of them.
Also as far as I’m aware the pay for programmers in the US has always been an isolated thing with the rest of the world ranging from normal to “literal sweatshop”.
So, from your comment and your reply, are you just happy that more people are being treated poorly?
That makes no sense. You seem to understand that he was being snarky, so why do you not understand that that snark and desire to see “others” brought down to a lower level just because some were already there doesn’t help anyone? Actually, that division does help people, those people that are putting people there in the first place.
Let’s be clear: for context I’ve been out of the programming game for more than 10 years at this point. I have my own business that I’m set to sell soon and then retire to something more entrepreneurial. But I still don’t desire to see my younger employees suffer any more than the tradesmen I used to work with.
Haha, it seems childish but if you’d like to go that route I’ll just point you to the original posters reply:
>It's exposing the hypocrisy of privileged groups suddenly being treated like regular people, when they did NOTHING for decades to help others or even to protect themselves ("f* you, got mine", rockstar programmer, 10x programmer, talents everywhere, etc mentality). No unions, no collective bargaining, sheer individual greed.
So, I guess since you’re taking that position, Thomas: are you just pro pain for an increasing number of workers or can we agree that adding more people to the pool of mistreated labor isn’t beneficial for anyone?
Personally I’m going to continue advocating for better rights for both.
What a weirdly hostile and offensive response. I'm always struck by people who think they can namedrop my employers to shut down an argument, like we're just going to believe and profess whatever keeps people on message boards from being mean about the company.
But, no, I feel like throughout this thread I've been pretty consistently putting a question to you (what exactly do you mean by "pain" or mistreatment, given the original comment described other professionals having norms developers seem now to be recoiling from).
Nah it’s relevant, because if you hold these views to the point that you’re willing to avoid answering the question then obviously your world view is warped in what even you would consider a negative direction and therefor it’s important that others get a chance to be steered away from a potentially negative experience.
And to be fair, I don’t know what you expect when you advertise your place of work and then insensitively play games with serious subject matter on public message boards. I think the kids call that a self own.
But I agree, you don’t seem willing to put in writing what you’ve conveyed so this isn’t a growth experience for anyone.
Also, is the data secure? Who else has access to that data? Will I be protected if I am in this system?
If they were open about the system, it would be one thing, but they never are. It is funny how this has cropped up gain after the recent pow wow with the yanks and the tech companies.
Mental fatigue is something that can manifest in different ways.
To keep it short, for me, It is like I can think down a path, but slowly, it is like I have this plodding speed, if I try to think 'quicker' (or more reactive/agile) it feels like a lot of effort, like I have to focus and push myself. The more effort I apply the more energy I use. The more energy I use the longer this state lasts for. The longer this state lasts for the more chance I develop physical issues. When I am in this state, I can't mentally fit pieces together. It is like I am wearing oven mits and trying to build lego. It just doesn't fit together. oh and I get really clumsy, my movement becomes really uncoordinated.
So it is like I have a smaller pool of energy, and I can spend it slowly over a longer period. Or faster over a shorter period. When I go over my limits, then see above.
The only cure, is rest, and that is usually about 3 days of not pushing myself mentally too hard, to get back to a reasonable baseline. It is improving, if we had had this conversation three years ago...
I have seen this in other devs, a friend of mine has MS and she needs to meter her energy levels like this. My neighbour came out of hospital after a serious illness and she has some of these symptoms. It is more common than you would think.
I just had this same thought this morning. I sure do with OCaml was far more popular. Right now, if you're planning a startup, you want something that you can just snap together a bunch of well-tested libraries. You want DB libraries, S3, message queue stuff, Kafka stream stuff. OCaml does have a lot of these things but they just aren't well known. If they exist, they're just poorly documented. This is why people opt for Java/Typescript/Ruby/Python. It's easy to hire devs, and the tools they'll use are fairly well understodd.
OCaml suffers greatly from a lack of unified practice. There's a YouTube playlist, a Udemy course... an Apress book and those two other ones with camels on the cover. That's about it for stock OCaml. If you want to learn Jane Street flavored OCaml, there's Real World OCaml.
I agree with you. Just have a clear structure and onramp for building stuff. Go and Rust seem to have a lot of the attention, there is room for Ocaml also, especially if it was as clearly and simply defined. (I have a sneaky suspicion it fits in that 'cloud native' space quite well) I am sure that the maintainers and architects see that also, they have made great strides the past few years and I hope they bring it together.
A bit of a jump but have a look at Pantheon the tv series, it is on Netflix at the moment. Based on a book by Ken Liu, the end of the series, blew my mind.
At my place, this is what they want. They want people to smash through things as fast as possible. They don’t want people to sit and craft a solution which takes in to account the whole. They are choosing tools which are low code, and use llm’s to produce what they need. as they say “this is the way things are going”.
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